Talking Football With....Stewart Downing: Man City Are Going To Slip Up

Ahead of the intriguing final few rounds of the Premier League, an exciting semi-final in the Champions League and a FA-Cup final spot, we caught up with former England and Liverpool ace, Stewart Downing. We discussed how life is following retirement, his take on Liverpool and his other former clubs and managers. 

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How do you feel now that you have retired, did you get time to get used to the idea as you came to watch the end of your playing career?

“I did actually, last year with the COVID situation, it was a bit tricky because I agreed on an extension with Blackburn for another season. And just before the season started, they pulled the contract from me because COVID hit, there wasn’t a lot of money and because I was coming to 37, the manager needed to sign young players for the future. So he saw he couldn’t waste money on an older player like me. So, I’d thought I’d retire then.”

“I was on holiday in August. I was away for a month, and I thought, I’ll just stay here, so I’m finished now. And then, come November, they rang me back and said can you come and sign till the end of the season because we’ve got problems with COVID, people are missing, injuries… And I was thinking, I have not really trained for three months, but yeah, I’ll come back.”

“So I came back, and I did like another 7 months. But from there, I planned to retire that season, so I had time to adjust, plan… And through the months I was doing Sky work, bits of media stuff, my coaching licences. So in that way, I was a little bit gutted I had to retire because of COVID, but it did give me another chance to plan another seven months ahead, which was good in that sense, because I can say it wasn’t taken away from me.”

“I knew what was coming and I could plan ahead. It was good in that way because a lot of players have to retire injured, or they get let go and they can’t find clubs. So I was lucky in that sense that I left on my terms.”

Do you miss playing football at a high level?

“Yeah, I think the first couple of months, I was getting offers to go to games and watch. I was making excuses, I didn’t want to go, and I felt like no, I just want some time away. But, come Christmas time, I started to go to games, watch the games, obviously there have been times when I had to be at the games, so it has just been gradual. I think I miss the playing, every time I go to the game I miss the atmosphere.”

“But I don’t miss certain things, you know off the field, to train every day, getting up at five or six in the morning to travel and so on. Stuff like that I don’t really miss, but the big thing is playing games, and like when you watch the Champions League, and the UEFA Cup, and all this, it’s exciting. And that’s the thing that players will tell you they miss the most.”

So we won’t see you come back to like maybe league one or league two in the future?

“No, I’m too old now, that’s it, I’m done now.”

Cristiano Ronaldo, he is 37 as well, and he is still playing at a high level, so it can be done I guess?

“It can be done. The good thing with (Ronaldo) Cristiano is that he is fit. I had a bit of a knee problem at the end. Which I had carried for many years. I think when you get old, the wear and tear, it just, it was starting to bother me a little bit. I was struggling to recover for games. And I think that’s your body telling you “Give me a rest.””

I wanna talk to you about Liverpool because right now Manchester City and Liverpool are head to head in the Premier League. Who do you think will win the Premier League?

“I changed my mind honestly about four or five times in the last couple of weeks! I think City are still in the driving seat, you’ve got to give them that. But I just think Liverpool has momentum. I went to the game at the weekend, and they didn’t play great in the first half. But you always have that sense that they are going to score, they’ve got that solved, I didn’t worry about them. Anfield was rocking and I’ve just got a feeling that Manchester City may slip up in the next couple of games, maybe draw a game. And that is when Liverpool have got to be ready. Maybe that’s from my heart, not from my head. But I think that Liverpool will just nick it in the end.”

So what you are telling me is that you hope that Liverpool will win?

“I hope that Liverpool will win. Don’t get me wrong, I think that Manchester City are strong, but I can see a game, I remember they played a couple of weeks ago, they drew with Crystal Palace, nil-nil. They dominated the game but they drew. And I can see Manchester doing that again. And I think Liverpool will just be ready to pounce.”

And City is playing Real Madrid, and Liverpool has a big game against Villarreal. Do you think those games will affect the outcome of the Premier League?

“It’s difficult because I think with their squads, I think it has to be at the start of the season. I think Liverpool are thinking they need to strengthen, they need, probably more numbers. So I look at now with (Luis) Diaz and (Ibrahima) Konate, and these types of players coming in, they look really strong now.”

“So, I’ve changed my mind a little bit. I think it wouldn’t affect them. If you are winning games, and you are playing in big competitions. You know people keep telling me, they might get tired. You don’t get tired when you are winning games. It’s more difficult when you are at the bottom of the league and you are losing. So I don’t think it will affect the league, I think as long as they are winning and they are winning big games, I think you just keep going and you just take the momentum with you.”

Do you think that Liverpool maybe lacks a little depth in the squad? Like, they don’t have as many, I would say quality players as City maybe on the bench?

“Yeah, I think the signings, the (Luis) Diaz signing was a really good one. I think they wanted to wait until the summer, but they’ve made a rush wanting to buy him. So I think he has been magnificent since he came in, he has been a really good player. I think on the game on Sunday I went to, he changed the game as soon as he came on and he is something different to what they have, (Mohamed) Salah is a goal machine, (Sadio) Mane plays different, but he has a little bit of skill, he has got different attributes, I think he is different to the others. But I still think they need maybe one or two more players, just in case they get a couple of injuries as I think they won’t be as strong as City if they do.”

Who do you think they should buy? If you’d name one player that Liverpool should buy?

“I do like the look of Jude Bellingham. I think he would suit Liverpool’s style, the pressing, the energy. How he would fit him in, I don’t know, but it depends if Keita were to leave, or John Henderson is obviously getting a lot older now. But I think he would be a really good signing and I just think he’s full of energy, he’s a Jurgen Klopp type of player, if that makes sense. I think he’s young, he is English, so I think that he fits all the right things for the club. I wouldn’t be surprised if they go for someone like him.”

What about Christian Eriksen?

“What an amazing comeback that is! I was very surprised I saw only Brentford went for him. But I don’t know, maybe they’ve been a little worried about his health? But he’s come back, and he’s looked good, just the same player as he was before, he’s been amazing, hasn’t he? Obviously, he’s had that problem with his heart and all that, but I think he’s been great.”

“And I think a lot of clubs will be like, maybe we should go and get him because he’s still got that quality, he’s not affected in any way, in terms of, mentally. And, I mean he’s been one of Brentford’s best players when I watched games. He’s been an amazing signing. I’ve always liked him, I think he is a fantastic player. I’m very surprised some like Spurs didn’t bring him back. But I think in the summer what could be a really good move for him somewhere in the Premier League.”

How do you assess Liverpool’s chances against Villarreal, in the Champions League?

“I think everyone thinks it’s just straightforward Liverpool will just win, but I think it’s going to be a little more difficult now. The manager (Unai Emery) is very experienced, he knows these types of games. I think the big one, the result of Anfield, what comes out of that. I think if they get a good cushion lead, they will be fine. But if it’s one, nil-nil, they play quite defensively and Liverpool had a good audition on Sunday, as Everton did the same thing to them, and they found it difficult to break them down up until the late in the game. So I think it all comes down on that result. I do think that Liverpool will go through, but I don’t think it will be as easy as people think it’s going to be.”

Which trio do you expect to start, up front, for Liverpool?’

“This is why I’d hate to be a manager! This is so difficult. I just think because I’ve seen what they do with the substitutions the other day, and how long people played, I think it will go (Mohamed) Salah on the right, I think it will go (Sadio) Mane through the middle, and I think it will go Diaz off the left. (Diogo) Jota was a little bit quiet in the game, he didn’t get a lot of success, and he came off in the game, I know Mane came off, but I think that was more because of the yellow card and obviously, this game coming up as well, so you have to rest him. So I think he will go with these three.”

Now I want to talk a little about Jordan Henderson because he is like the sole survivor at the club from your time there. How would you describe his style of leadership, how important is he for this Liverpool side, compared to maybe how important he was for when you started your careers as young players?

“Yeah, obviously when he signed with me he was very young, I think he was 19? He didn’t have a lot of experience, he started playing a little bit of right-wing as well when he first came in. And you could see, he was still raw. Still had to learn the game. I just think he’s gradually got better and better, he started to understand the game. It sounds crazy, but he’s learnt when to run and when not to run, because he used to just run and run, in full energy all the time.”

“I think since he’s worked with Brendon, the tactic was good, I think they slowed him down a little bit, and told him. You can see now the way he plays, he’s not the one to be rushing everywhere, just, manages the game, manages his legs. And I just think he’s got better and better with years, and that just comes with experience. He was under a lot of pressure when he first signed as people were comparing him to the next to Steven Gerrard which was crazy really, because them players are just one-off players, they don’t come around very often.”

“So I think he’s managed that quite well. I think giving him the captaincy has given him a lot of leadership and I think it brought him up more. When you go to watch the games all you can hear is Jordan screaming and shouting at people. I think he is sort of Jurgen Klopp’s manager on the field because I can imagine there is a lot of nationalities, some of them are quite quiet, maybe don’t speak a lot of English. He is sort of the manager that wants to talk. I think giving him that captaincy has certainly brought him up more.”

Are you surprised to see him at the club 10 years later almost, and to see how important he is for the club right now?

“I think a bit of yes and no. If you ask me, about around the Brendon Rodgers times, when they first signed him it looked like he was on his way out. It didn’t look like he was in favour, he wasn’t playing. Brendon wanted his own players. But I think he got into the team, and he proved them wrong. From then on, and they even had a sort of a sticky spell under Klopp when he first got there, he was buying new players. Jordan was injured I think at the time, it wasn’t brilliant, but he gained his trust as he gone on.”

“So I think in terms of how he is as a person, it didn’t surprise me because he is a fighter, he won’t give up, he is a hundred per cent type of player, you can see that when he plays. But I did think that time he was injured under Klopp, when it was time to buy players I thought he might find it hard to get in. But I think like anybody, he just needed the chance, and when he got his chance he took it and Klopp, started to trust him again. Yes, I was surprised he was there for that amount of time when considering where he was at the start, but when I look at it now, no, because, even being English in a dressing room and the character he is, it makes sense.”

Salah’s contract is a major topic right now, because he is not getting any younger, and do you see him staying at Liverpool? Or will he make a big move, maybe one last big move to another club?

“Yeah, I think the noise is coming from that he wants obviously a long contract, four or five years, and they are saying two or three. I can understand the club’s take on it, because, obviously you have to think there is no sell-on value and they are going give him a lot of money to stay but, I just think about for Salah himself, like where is he going go that’s better? Maybe only Manchester City.”

“PSG gets him a lot of money but the league is not as good. Real Madrid and Barcelona are not as big as they were before. I just think he’s loved at Liverpool, he is one of the best players in the league I and I think he should just stay and keep that reputation, and play in the best league. I do think it will get sorted in the end, I do think he will stay, but I do think it will go until the end of the season. Maybe he’ll want to see how Liverpool finishes in the League, and then the Champions League. That might sway his decision? But there are not a lot of clubs he can go to, to be honest, because obviously the demands he wants in the contract, and how much he wants to be paid. I think he will stay though.”

How big of a blow do you think it would be for Liverpool if he leaves the club?

“It’s a blow. I think it would be a massive blow to fans. It’s not easy, players like these don’t come very cheap. People are talking about (Kylian) Mbappés and (Erling) Haalands, you know they are going cost a lot of money to get those players in the club, so maybe he is thinking “if you want to keep me you are going to have to pay me.” It is sort of the game, isn’t it? He’d be a massive loss because no one in the team can score that amount of goals like he does.”

If you look back at the time on Anfield, how much do you feel the club has progressed since your time there?

“Massively. When I went to the game the other day, the whole stadium, it looks like a different stadium! The training ground too. I think when I signed it was just the start of it, the Americans just took over. They sort of had big plans, and I was sort of the start of that process. Then you look at 10 years since and what they’ve done at the club is amazing. They’ve done what they wanted to do, they wanted to make Liverpool challenge, make them one of the best teams in the world with some of the best players, and off the field, revamp the stadium improve to the training ground.”

“So, I think they did everything they said they were going do, so you’ve got to give them credit for that. They always did have big plans and they did it. I know 10 years is a long time but, it’s not in football for what they’ve done. So they are doing an amazing job, like I said the club is getting better and better each year.”

Do you sometimes wish you were 10 years younger and you were still playing for Liverpool?

“Yes, I was going say it at the end, I wish I were a player 10 years younger! But you can’t help your time. I had a good time there, I know it was obviously the start of what it is now, and I wouldn’t have been there for very long because I was 27, 28, at the time. But you have that thinking I’d love to have played for Klopp, I would love to have played at a new stadium, at the new training ground, all that comes with it but, you can’t pick and choose. But, it just makes you think sometimes, I’d love to have played for Klopp.’”

Yes of course, and talking about Klopp, it seems he is irreplaceable right now at Anfield. But it looks like if things are going according to plan, they will need a new manager by 2024. Who do you see in that position, if they have to replace Klopp?

“It is very difficult, I think like with Ferguson when he left, it is very difficult to replace someone who has been that good. I honestly don’t know. I had thought they might just leave (Lijnders) Pepijn, Klopp’s number two, in charge and just carry on with the same model and in the same way. Obviously Steven Gerrard is the obvious link, but that all depends on how he does in Aston Villa. You see him, is he ready for the job? Does Steven think he is ready for the job? You know, he is the natural pick. But you never know what could happen in the next two or three years, a manager could come out of nowhere. I would like to see Steven Gerrard do it, but I just hope he gets the timing right because I’d want him to do well.”

What about Stewart Downing as a manager for Liverpool?

“(Laughter) I don’t think so, I think there will be a list very long in front of me! I mean don’t get me wrong, if I was a manager that would be one of your dream jobs, it’s the best in the business. When you look at Klopp, he is managing great players, they are winning most weeks, playing in front of great fans. He must pinch himself at times, but it’s very demanding and tiring. But in the end, when you win, it sort of takes all the tiredness away doesn’t it?”

Now if we can move from Liverpool to Aston Villa, they had a pretty rough time in the Premier League. How do you feel that they are doing, and how do you think Steven Gerard is doing?

“I think from when I left, I think they started like a 10 year up and down period, ended in the Championship then they got promoted. So for a club as big as that, it’s disappointing because they’ve got everything in place, the stadium, the funds, the behind the scenes. I just think when Martin O’Neill left, I think they lost a little bit of that winning mentality, and they sold a lot of players. I think that came off the pitch because the chairman obviously was going through a divorce and he didn’t have money to spend, so that had a negative effect on the club.”

“But once these new owners came in, you could see that they’ve got a plan. I think Steven initially had a good start, you thought they might sneak into Europe the way they were going, but all of a sudden they had a massive dip. I think that’s just sort of the new manager coming in, you always get that bounce, and then they sort of go back to their own level. I think it’s sort of a message to Steven that he needs to improve the team. They are good, they are a good team, but for what he wants, I think he will have to improve the team. I’m sure that in the summer there will be a big overhaul of six or seven players in or out because he’ll want to do well, and the pressure is on him.”

Do you think he has the potential to be a world-class manager?’

“Yeah, I think he’s got the mentality for it, he’s got the temperament. He has played at the top level, he knows what it takes. He was one of the best players in the world at one point. I think he knows all the standards that you need to be at the top, and all you have got to think is I hope he gets the backing. I think he will because they brought him in and I just think the next season is a big summer for him. I think he has to get the players that he brings in right, and I’m sure once you do buy, you are going to have to finish in the top places. I think next season if they are getting the top seven, I think that is a really, really good season for them, and it is just slowly building along. I’m looking forward to it, like I said, I hope they do well, they are one of my old clubs, they are a good club, and I think they’ve got a really good manager.”

The rumours that Origi From Liverpool might go to Aston Villa, do you think that he’ll be a good signing?

“I’ve seen that rumour. When I see him play, you don’t get to see a lot of him as he’s normally coming off the bench! So you I haven’t seen him get a run of games and what he could be. But, he sure knows how to score and that’s a good quality to have. I’m sure he’s someone Steven might probably be looking at thinking “He could get me goals in big games”. It wouldn’t surprise me if Steven looked to bring in a couple of forwards next year. I think Watkins is decent and I think Danny Ings looks slightly out of the pitch at the minute. I think you might go right through the spine of the team, I think you look at strikers because you definitely need goals. Obviously if you can add Coutinho to that creativity and obviously I think you need a couple of defenders, as I don’t think they’re as strong defensively as he’d probably like.”

They have a Danish director for football so maybe he’ll bring in some Danish players?

“You never know. Erisken maybe?”

And also Douglas Luiz, his name has been linked away from Villa Park, how important do you feel he is for Aston Villa right now?

“I think he’s a really good player. When I watch him play, he’s a good footballer. I think he’s quite intelligent, he’s good with the ball, which is what Steven will probably like. When you listen to the rumours coming out that he could be leaving and it always seems to be Villa linked with different midfielders everywhere and Kalvin Phillips is obviously the big one that keeps getting linked.”

It’s been a huge week for West Ham with a European semi-final, have you been following their European campaign?

“Yeah, I’ve been watching the games and everytime I watch thinking “this could be a hard game” and “this could be the end of it”, and somehow they just get through! I think that’s them as a team, that’s what they’re like, they’re fighters, they don’t give up. I don’t think that West Ham are the blessed best team, but I just think their manager is at 100% and think he demands the best and I think people find it tough to play at West Ham.”

“I know some big Premier League teams have got them in the run in where the points could be dropped, and I’ve always looked at West Ham and think that could be a tricky game for them. So, I think they’ve been amazing, I don’t think it’s helped them a little bit because they obviously haven’t got a massive squad, they sort of play with the same team a lot. I know he made a couple of changes at the weekend but that might just hinder them in the end because the squad’s just not big enough.”.

Do you think that Declan Rice will be a big loss for the club if he leaves for City or somebody else, for Liverpool this summer?

“Yeah, I think he’s the big player for them. He’s obviously going to be missed, but I think there’s been a comment yesterday and I thought that was a good comment. He said I was at Everton when I sold Wayne Rooney and everyone thought – oh, wow, we’re going to go down, but the team actually got better because they used the money for the squad.”

“So if they can get a hundred million for him and go and buy six-seven players, it might actually make them a better team, because they can buy a lot more quality and a lot more players whereas, obviously Declan Rice is a good player but it’s a better to have three or four good players than just one. So, I understood what he meant and I thought if he gets the money to strengthen them because they’ve got potential to be a really good team.”

Maybe I’m putting words in your mouth now, but it seems like you don’t think that Declan Rice is that good, or is that just me who misunderstands?

“No, I think he’s a really good player, I just think that for him at West Ham, he’s playing every week, he’s captain, he’s the main man. I think if he goes to Man City will play every week? It’s a big position for him, obviously, the level goes up. I’d judge him better when he goes to a club like that.”

“I do rate him and I think he’s a really good player. But, when you asked me about the team, I think it’s just West Ham selling, I think they could become better because they could buy three or four really good players instead of just having one on his own because if he got injured, West Ham don’t have a lot of quality to replace him whereas if they buy three or four… Do you understand what I mean?”

Yeah, I understand, maybe that’s a bit what happened to Jack Grealish from Aston Villa to Man City, so it’s hard for him to be a big star because there you have a lot of great players around him and playing the same position.

“Yeah, it can be difficult, like you said, when you go to a big club and what Jack’s found is that he’s not the main man and he probably doesn’t get the ball like he used to at Villa. He has to sort of fit into the way they play. I think he’s found it difficult at times and he’s been a bit up and down, but, I think he’s playing for a world class managers and I think eventually it will click with him and he will realise that it might actually help him not feeling all the pressure of being the main man and that he just plays his own way. I think next season is the big season for Jack and I think if Declan Rice goes to a bigger club he may have the period Jack is going through now.”

Mark Noble, he has only a few career games left, how do you recall your time playing with him?

“Yeah, he must be about 50 now! He just keeps going. I spoke to him a couple of weeks ago, I think that he’s now starting to get a bit emotional now. I’ve seen him the other day and he was crying in one of their games when they got through. I think he’s found it difficult because he’s coming to the end. It’s hard because obviously leaving a good team, a good club, the only club he’s played for.”

“So I think it’s going to be hard for him, but I think he’s been amazing, he’s done well to be a squad player this year and he finds himself on the bench, but I think how his manager’s been really good and he’s probably in a similar situation that I was in. He knows he’s coming to the end, and he’s sort of planned it. I’m sure he’ll be back in some sort of job there, a manager or a coach or something, they’ll definitely have a job for him.”

It sounds like you and him are good friends, do you speak a lot?

“Yeah, I got on really well with Mark, I’m a little older than him but I’ve known him for years and just sort of clicked, when you’re in the club and you get on with someone, he was really good to me. We socialise and stuff like that with families and he’s a really good lad, like I said, a really good captain and he’s been there for 18 years which is amazing to stay at a club that long and to always be involved, amazing. It wouldn’t surprise me if he ends up as a West Ham manager one day.”

Now I want to go to Middlesbrough. There’s a lot of Liverpool fans working here. I’ve always seen you as a Middlesbrough legend, is that a fair assessment, how do you see yourself?

“I don’t know. Maybe because I spent a long time there. I started when I was seven or eight years there. I got into the first team and I was seven or eight years there. After that I went to Villa and then when I went back I was 31 to 35. So, I did about 12 – 13 years in the first team and because I played a lot of games and I’m in the top five in terms of appearances. But I’m definitely not a legend, I think it’s just more because I’m a local lad from Middlesbrough, similar to what Mark Noble is but I didn’t stay there for my entire career.”

What are your thoughts on their season so far, in the Championship?

“At first under Neil Warnock, they were coasting along and I wasn’t so sure, they could be mid-table maybe but they weren’t playing great. Then Chris Wilder came along, it was a brave decision, and then to be fair, the run of games he had was unbelievable, and they’re going into position, I thought, they could get promoted here. But, for some reason in the last couple of weeks, I don’t know if you’ve seen but this rumour has come out that the manager could be going to Burnley.”

“I think he came out he didn’t really say that he didn’t want to go to Burnley and think he was like “We’ll see what happens” and I think that’s affected them. They’re young players, they’re a young team that are probably thinking “wow, my manager just doesn’t want to be here”, and their results haven’t been great from then on. So, I don’t think that’s been handled very well and I think it might cost them in the end and I think that they’re going to miss out on the play-offs.”

Yeah, but they still got mathematically, they still have a shot at the playoffs, but, do you think they will make it?

“Just think with Blackburn winning on Monday night, I think Forest winning last night, Millwall are in decent form. I just think Middlesborough’s form at the minute is not very good at the wrong time, isn’t it? They play Cardiff tonight and if they don’t get maximum points then it’s game over for them. I’ll be honest, they didn’t play great at the weekend against Swansea as well. So, I just think the timing and the manager situation does not help them at all.”

Well maybe Blackburn will make the playoffs then one of your former clubs will maybe..

“Well yeah, I need one of them don I? I need someone there!”

Djed Spence, he has been in great form and he’s been labelled a potential huge star, how far do you think he’ll go?

“I was with Djed when he got released from Fulham and came to Middlesboruogh and started to train with the first team. You could see he had natural ability, you could see he can run, he’s good with the ball but he was still a bit raw. I think he got into the first team, and he was doing really well.”

“I thought, because of his athleticism he has to play in the right system, in an attacking team. I just think he struggled a bit, he didn’t really fit the defensive style under Neil Warnock. But I think when Chris Wilder came, it surprised me a bit that he didn’t try to get him in back in January, just sort of left him at Nottingham Forest, but I don’t really know what’s going on, maybe he just doesn’t want to be in Middlesbrough, maybe he just wants to leave. But I think the Forest play, the manager’s attacking style suits him perfect and I think he could go and try a decent career.”

“I think more with him it’s about his mentality. He’s a little bit laid back, he could be late at times, you need to be on him and be aggressive as a manager because he’s a little laid back, as I said, and I think managers can get frustrated with that. He’s still only a young lad and he’s still got a lot to learn, but it wouldn’t surprise me if someone took a chance on him because I think he’s got the attributes to play in the Premier League.”

So you think he could go to one of the big clubs, he’s been rumoured to Brentford but also bigger clubs like United, Arsenal, Spurs obviously because he’s English, they want to take this chance?

“Yeah, I like the way Spurs play with a wingback system, I know they’re quite defensive but I think Conte, he likes the wingbacks to go up and down, that suits his game. I’m not sure about Arsenal, I think he would have to do another level. For Brentford, the way they play, I think that could suit him. So it wouldn’t surprise me if someone from the Premier league did take a chance of him, because if they get in for 10 million which is probably not a lot of money in today’s game, you know, I think that could be good business for someone.”

Last Middlesbrough question: Could you see yourself going back to Middlesbrough in like a coaching position, manager position, at some point?

“That was my sort of dream, when I was coming towards the end thinking, “I’m doing more badges, I’ve played in Middlesbrough, I’ve sort of been there, so the next thing you could do is just manage.” It’s always been a dream of mine, if it will ever happen, I do not know, it depends on the chairman and my credentials obviously, also if the manager thinks I’ll suit the club. It’s always been a dream I will never rule out because you just know what might happen, but I would love to do that I think one day and give it a try and, but we’ll see what happens.”

Talking about managers, because Gareth Southgate, he went from being your teammate at Middlesbrough to your manager. How was that transition for you and your teammates?

“It was more strange for the other lads. I think I could always see he was going to be a manager, you could see that. I think the time that he got it was the shock and I think more for him that he found it more uncomfortable than what we did. Because, even to me when I played as a young player he felt like my manager on the field anyway, because he was in control of everyone in the dressing room, he was the one everyone looked up to as the leader.”

“I’ve just seen it as a natural progression, but when I speak to Gareth now and he says he found it very difficult because now I have to drop people, tell people things that they might not want to hear, whereas before he was our friend and we might moan to him at times because he was the captain.”

“I enjoyed playing for him, obviously he was a top player, but I think he is a really good manager. When you look back then he made a lot of mistakes. But I didn’t see a lot of mistakes, I just see someone who is willing to learn, he had good ideas, and I just think he needed better help around him, he had young staff. I think if he was with someone beside him who had that experience, I think that he would have done even better at Middlesbrough.”

“It doesn’t surprise me that he’s done this well, I didn’t really think that he would be the manager this soon, but I’ve always thought that he’d have a really good career in the game just because he’s a really good fella. People liked to play with him, and he’s got good ideas and then people enjoy the way he plays football.”

How was your relationship with him in Middlesbrough, from a teammate to a manager, did you experience any difference, were you mates, how did you get along?

“I think I was 19,20,21 when he was coming towards the end. So, he was a lot older than me, but I got along really well with him. He used to give me a lot of advice. I was sort of one of the only young players in the team at the time, I played with a lot of experienced players, but he was the one who used to help me.”

“He used to guide me, you know he’d say make sure you do this, make you do things right and I used to just watch him without him even know probably, I used to watch what he does, why is he eating that, why is he in the gym?”

“And then, when you get older, you realise why he’s doing what he was doing. He was a really good, just a really good lad. So, when I played for him, the relationship didn’t really change. We had good conversations privately where he said: listen, you know what I like, you know what I want, because I’d seen what his standards as a player.”

“So, it didn’t really surprise me, but he made me captain which I’ll always be proud of that, captain for my hometown team, and when you get the captaincy, it was a big thing for me at that time.”

“And I didn’t feel I was ready to do that, I was only 23, but he said: no, I think you would be a good captain. You don’t have to shout, you can just lead in how you train, play, eat. And that’s what I’m trying to do because I wasn’t that type of player who used to go around and demand. I just played, and how I tried to play and just lead by how I acted in person and that’s what he was really as a captain. So, looked up to him and I thought he was good.”

You had 23 out of 35 England caps while playing for Middlesborough. How was it to play for a “smaller” club and then the international camps and meeting up with all the huge stars, how was it for a player like you?

“This is where Gareth came into it. I’ve come to a period at the end of my career at Middlesborough where he knew I sort of wanted to leave the club. Middlesbrough sort of stagnated a little bit and then I was playing with the Champions League players, world class players, I think he knew I was getting frustrated.”

“I said, listen to Capello telling me that I won’t get picked for England unless I move and start challenging myself, at least in the Europa League. So, he was like, yeah, I understand, but give me one more year, so I did another year and I got injured on the last game of the season, which was a nightmare, to be honest.”

“And then I went to Aston Villa, they signed me injured, but Villa was a good move for me, they were in the top six. From then I started to get into the England squad and you could feel the difference in the levels when you were back to Middlesbrough. No disrespect, but we were a young team, I went to England and I’m playing with the world class players and you could see the standard and the total difference, and that’s what you want, you want to play on a highest level, and I just think that Aston Villa move at that time was good for me and good for probably Middlesbrough because I’ve been there a long time as well.”

You won more caps under Fabio Capello than any other England manager, did you know how highly he rated you, and what was your relationship?

“Well his English wasn’t great. I knew he liked me because I used to have Franco Baldini beside him, he was a technical director. And he used to say to me: you know, Fabio likes you and he needs you to play at the higher club, which was, I thought, disrespectful of my hometown club, but he said: he needs you to play in the Champions League and he tried to get me to move to Juventus.”

“He said to me: would you go to Juventus? And I was like – yes, right! And this was around 2009, before the Villa thing came about and I got injured, what would have come out of that, I don’t know but, I knew he liked me and he said: as long as you move clubs and play at the level I want, you will always be in my squad.”

“To be fair, when I was fit, I generally played for him, I was always involved. So, I liked him, I knew he liked me, I knew he was strict, and the way he went about things. But I think at the time England needed that because before it was a little bit of “do what you want” and it was always the same team, you know, it was very difficult to break in to Sven’s XI and Steve McClaren’s, I just think that with him he only picked people on performance, he didn’t care how famous you were and what club you played for because you performed and I like that about him.”

Do you still have a relationship with him?

“No, to be honest. He probably won’t understand me and I can’t understand him. His English wasn’t great but he sort of got the message across. He got a little bit of warmth about him and his sport, and he was an old disciplinarian. If I see him, I’d speak to him because I had a good relationship with him.”

“I thought he was a really good manager and what he’s done in the game, people can’t question that. I just think with England he just didn’t get it right and I just think that language barrier was a massive thing for him.”

I want to finish up by asking you: what is the future for your career? One of my colleagues also told me that you work as a DJ, is that right?

“Well, I did when I was younger. You know, you train and you go home and have a lot of time on your hands. I had no kids, no wife and I was thinking what can I do? I don’t like anything apart from football! So, my friends were DJs so I said “can you learn me how to play?” So, I bought some decks, learned on the vinyl’s and then I went to CDs and I just chilled out in the afternoon, just playing around.”

“Then I played in a couple of clubs in Ibiza, no one knew I was playing, I just went on, twenty minutes, came off, went to little bars. Then, a few people started to notice I was doing it, and then it sort of got that I was a DJ but, I’m not a DJ! It’s just something that I did, something for fun, it was a bit of passing time. I mean, I still got them now, except I got the kids and stuff around, I don’t get any time to play. It’s just sort of a hobby if you like, I’ve always loved music but I just thought why not learn to be a DJ. I’ve played guitar, I’ve tried to play guitar, but my patience is like this (shows small) and once I can’t get it right I just put it away whereas as the DJ and I sort of took to it and I enjoyed it. But I’m not a DJ.”

“So, will we see you as a coach, do you think that’s the next step for you?”

“People ask me this all the time, I think the more I do, the media really enjoy it. I think it’s given me something different and I quite enjoy it. I like talking about football because it’s probably the next best thing to playing is watching, talking about it.”

“But, in the back of my mind I think I would like to be out on the grass helping people. I think it’s more opportunity. If you ask me on the spot now, I’d like to be a coach. But I think the longer it goes on and I’m not involved in the game I think I might slide towards the media side. So, sort of sat on the fence there, I really don’t think I’m giving you an answer. I’ll see what opportunities will come up, I think it during the next year and I think then I should be making a big decision of all I want to do.”

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