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Horse Racing Talking Football with…. Lianne Sanderson: Germany are a Very Good Team But I’m Backing England at Wembley
We’re back with Lianne Sanderson who previews England vs Germany in the Euros 2022 final. After a month of football, there is only one match remaining. Everything is on the line as two old enemies meet at a sold-out Wembley Stadium.
We spoke, of course, about the much-anticipated final. But Lianne also discussed multiple other topics including the two semi-final matches, team selection, tactics for the final and what long-term impact this tournament will have on the women’s game in England. Enjoy.
England in the final. How big is this for women’s football in the country? Do you see the status of women’s football improving?
Yes, obviously.
In 2009 when we made the final against Germany, we lost 6:2. I came on in that game. We were 4:0 down and we just couldn’t really get near them. I think the game’s evolved since then. I think a lot of the nations fear playing against England. I think England have played themselves into this tournament, into becoming the favourites.
“Coming into the tournament, we were ranked 8th in the world. It’s obviously not the World Cup or based upon World rankings and stuff like that. Sweden were probably one of the favourites. Spain were one of the favourites, but England have played so well that I thought they played their way into being the favourites.”
“I was one of those people where my head and my heart was telling me two different things before the tournament. I want England to win, but obviously, with Alexia Putellas getting injured, Jenni Hermoso being out I think that played a massive part. But I thought Spain were gonna win the tournament. I just thought now was their time with how well their players have done at Barcelona.”
“England right now, ever since Sarina Wiegman came in September, and I say September cause it isn’t that long really to prepare for a major tournament. She’s been amazing and anything that’s been thrown at them she’s dealt with. Now, people question, you know to get Latvia, North Macedonia 20:0, 10:0, all those types of games. But I don’t believe with Phil Neville England would won those games in that way.“
“I love her. I really think she’s great. I actually congratulated her the other day when she was walking towards me. And she said – ‘Congratulations to you too’. And I thought – ‘Oh, thank you’. But, yeah, I like her. Wish she was the manager when I was there. When I played for England there was all this kind of make-believe that we’re all together. Now, we were friends, that’s not saying that, but it was all drilled into us so much that we need to inspire everybody and that we’re all together.”
“Now I genuinely feel it. I think sometimes it was almost like you said it so much that everyone would convince themselves, whereas now I genuinely feel it from everybody. Like the subs know their roles and responsibilities. From what I’ve heard and what players have said, Sarina is very open and honest about communication and that makes a difference. Because players like Alessia Russo, Ella Toone, Alex Greenwood, they’ve been communicated with because they are the types of players who could probably potentially start in these games, especially against a team like Northern Ireland.”
“I think the main catalyst has been Sarina Wiegman along with the players having that belief, you can feel it.”
Women’s football, especially at the top level, has seen more investment in recent years. The FAWSL has been marketed more. Do you think this is a major factor behind England reaching the final?
“I do and I think it’s been a process as well. I was semi-pro, training twice a week and when I turned fully pro, I trained every day. Now, when you train every day, and you can focus solely on being a professional footballer it makes a difference. A lot of my teammates went to work and we trained at like 8 o’clock at night till 10 o’clock in the evening.”
“Everybody was tired, people gone sore, there’s loads that didn’t even practise. Now the players can fully focus on being professional footballers. And this season the investment from the media, radio, TV has allowed these players to get more money. Obviously it ultimately comes down to finances. A lot of the players when I left to play in America were going to America because it was fully professional. Not necessarily due to salaries but the facilities in every single way and the stadiums.”
“Now a lot of players are coming to England. I think that WSL still has a lot of work to do. It has to be said. The top four in the WSL are thriving, but the teams below that are still struggling, financially and a lot of different factors. I think that’s important.
“But I think the women’s game is growing. I’ve always said if you advertise something, people will come.”
“Now when you go through London, there’s big pictures of the games in under-passes. It’s everywhere and I think it’s making everyone realize they can watch the games. How would people suppose to know about something if they can’t watch the games? Before there were only one game a year on TV, the FA Cup Final.”
“It’s almost like now everybody can see and make their own assessments of the players now, critique them, give them praise and I think it’s absolutely brilliant and I think a lot of it has to do with visually being able to see the players.”
“I think it makes a difference.”
“I think that’s why someone becomes your favourite player. Now with Keira Walsh, she might not be someone’s favourite player because she doesn’t score a lot of goals. Whereas if you would actually watch the games, people would say she’s one of the best players.”
Ian Wright, while talking on BBC after the semi-final, said that if girls are not allowed to play football in PE after this, then something is wrong. Do you agree with him there? Something you’d like to add?
“Yeah, I think as well, I mean Wright has always been such a trailblazer for us, especially for someone like myself.”
“He’s always spoken out about and I think that the platform that he has, he uses it in a correct way because people respect him and he’s always pushing us on and he’s always showing as our biggest advocate in the sense that he’s done women’s football way before anybody wanted to do women’s football.”
“Having a name like Ian Wright amongst the women’s game is fantastic. He goes to the games, he always posts on his social media, and he loves going to the games. So for me, I do agree with that, because I think that it’s not just football, I think it’s sports on a whole, in PE and in England. I went to an all-girls school and it was only me and my best friend that really wanted to do PE.”
“And there’s only so much that you can do at badminton with two people.”
“I think there’s something to be said about that, but I do think that the girls are inspiring people to get active, the girls, the young girls, I don’t think I’ve ever seen so many young girls and boys talking about the women’s game.”
“After the game the other day they’re doing interviews, these little kids talking about their favourite players. Having the girls’ names on the back of their jerseys. I always said seeing is believing, but I do agree with Wright. I think something needs to be done.”
“Sometimes in schools people get notes from their family members who say they can’t compete because they’re scared and that’s the reality. I went to an all-girls school so all the excuses were made and that was a long time ago and I still see those types of things happening now. You see girls playing, you never see girls playing football in PE, it would always be the boys and hopefully that’s changing.”
Looking at all the games so far, who do you think deserves to be called the best player of the tournament? Do you think that could change after the final?
“I don’t think it’s all on this one game (the final).
“I think it’s difficult because there’s a lot of individual players that haven’t really impressed throughout.
“I had the luxury and joy of watching a lot of these games live. Working at them and I think when you watch a game live you see players differently. I think when you watch it on TV you can’t see everything in its entirety”
“The player that I didn’t know too much about before was (Lena) Oberdorf of Germany. She’s only 20 years old. And since I watched her live I think she’s unbelievable. She just loves defending, genuinely.“
“I’m not saying she should be player of the tournament. But everybody would always talk about Popp and players like Beth Mead and those types of players. But, for me players like Oberdorf and Keira Walsh are so important to these teams and that’s why I’m so excited for the final on Sunday cause I think that midfield battle is gonna be key.”
“Beth Mead, she’s been amazing in taking her chances. Whenever she’s had the ball I think she’s been really good but she’s just been so ruthless in front of goal. During this tournament any time she gets a chance she hits it. Lucy Bronze hit the ball for the first time and she just hit it. That’s a player that’s in form.”
“Players like Popp and Beth Mead are going up for the Golden Booth. Both have equal goals coming into this game. You can’t not give one of them the Player of the Tournament in my opinion.”
“But then there’s been some unbelievable saves by Mary Earps the other day. When she’s been called upon, she has been unbelievable. The save she pulled off up on the Blackstenius finish was fantastic.”
“There’s a few players I’d put in there but Popp. But I mean, come on, she’s so great. She’s a type of player that’s always dangerous. She doesn’t need to be always touching the ball.”
“For me, my standout player has definitely been Beth Mead. I’ll go with Keira Walsh and Oberdorf. They are my three players I really enjoy watching.“
How careful should England be of Alexandra Popp? Think the CB duo of Leah Williamson and Millie Bright will be able to keep her quiet?
“I think that they’ll have their work cut out.”
“She’s completely different to handle to Graham Hansen and Hegerberg, and I use those two, because they are probably the best two centre forwards they fought in the group stage against and they have done their homework way before the tournament even started. They know how good these players are.”
“Someone like Popp, she’s so good at movement. The frist goal against France that she’s scored was unbelievable. You know, she gets Rauch in the right-hand side and puts it across, and what’s so good about this German team is, they are so good regardless of whoever is playing. They are so good at delivering the ball early and they are also really good at running with the ball and delivering it on the run.”
“Brand does it, Huth does it, these wide players are so good at that and they provide a service. But the goal last night, one of the goals was a ball coming in and the French defenders were trying. She went in front of them and just hit it on the volley. And she’s so good so you can’t take your eye off her.”
“She’s so dangerous that one of the guys I worked with said she’s the best female player he’s ever seen live. And I said to him – Wow, that’s pretty bold statement.”
“She is fantastic and when you watch her live you appreciate her even more because her movement is so good. She’s always looking over her shoulder. She’s always looking where to go. “
“Millie Bright and Leah Williamson will have their work cut out against her. I think it would be probably their biggest test of the tournament. Even though Spain was gonna be their biggest test and against Sweden they didn’t really have that upfront (threat). Spain, without Gonzales without Jenni Hermoso being there it was different. So, I think they’re gonna have their work cut out and some players you can analyze them till next year, but you can’t defend them. It’s always a threat. It’s the same as if someone is trying to figure out how to defend Messi and Ronaldo.”
“You can only do so much and then you gotta hold your hands up and say these players are very, very good and I gotta do everything I can to stop them.”
What has been your goal of the tournament so far?
“I’m trying to not be biased towards England but I think it just seems like England have scored a lot of really good goals.”
“I think that the Beth Mead goal the other day when she hit it on the front on the one touch. It’s just an instinctive touch. Georgia Stanway’s goal was absolutely brilliant but I mean, Alessia Russo was one of the best goals I ever seen live and have been fortunate enough to be at games.”
“Maybe it’s me that brings the luck. But I was at Giroud’s scorpion kick and that was at the Emirates. I was at Cristiano Ronaldo head kick against Juventus at the Allianz Stadium.”
“I’ve been very blessed to be at games where they scored really good goals. But the other day, that goal was unbelievable. Absolutely brilliant. I watched it over and over again and I think I’m biased towards her because I really like her. I interviewed her earlier on in the tournament and I think she’s a great person, genuinely. I got that feeling from her and when you meet people and they’re good people you kind of root for them even more.”
“So, that goal for me it has to be it.”
A packed Wembley. Will it be the 12th woman for England in the final?
“Yeah definitely. I think they have been this whole tournament. I think all the atmospheres everywhere, Brighton, Saint Mary’s, the first game at Old Trafford, it has just been so amazing. And what I love about these fans that come to the women’s games, even last night, there were so many fans from different teams. There were people with England shirts, Spain shirts, Sweden shirts, and Swiss shirts. So it has actually been a really good celebration of everybody.”
“But I think come Sunday, it will probably be a strong majority of English fans. Germany had a lot of fans there last night. Definitely way more than France. So I think it is going to be a really, really good game. But the thing is about this German team. They historically know how to win. They are so well-drilled. And they always like to cause an upset.”
“We played against Germany, I did, in Wembley in front of 70.000, about four or five years ago. We lost three-nil, we couldn’t get near them. It was absolutely hammering it down that night, and we tried, but we just couldn’t get near them. We had good enough players, but the way we were playing four-four-two, I don’t think it worked against Germany.”
“But, I think the team has evolved since then. Not necessarily better players, but better organisation, better manager, someone that knows how to win. Sarina Wiegman, if she can win back-to-back tournaments, in two different countries, that is saying something.”
“But, I think Germany are going to come, I am nervous, I do think Germany are a very, very good team, and I’ve been really right to praise them. People just expect England to win this tournament so comfortably. Whereas, actually, I don’t think it is going to be that easy.”
“I think Germany they are so, I call them machines, you know, everything they do when it comes to winning, playing, they just know how to get the job done. England will have to be on it all the time during this game because they break so well, and they are so direct at how they break, but they also have the quality.”
Speaking of the final – what are your expectations?
“Yeah, I do feel nervous. I think, obviously, it is a final, England are in the final. Last year the men were in the final, and they lost to Italy. So I am hoping we can go that one step further. But I just think the fact that we are there. I think the whole country is so behind the team, even people that were not on board with it before. Nine million people watched the game the other day, and they are expecting more to watch the final. “
“So I am expecting a difficult game against Germany. I am expecting England to have to defend quite a bit. Not the same as they did against Spain, I don’t think Germany will have all of the possession. But I do think that the way they attack with Huth, and Bühl is back from COVID, or if Brand plays, they play exactly the same way. And with Popp, you can’t switch off for a second.”
“So I think the backline is going to have to defend a little bit better than they have in some of the games. I think that against Spain and against Sweden, that the first 30 minutes, our backline was a little bit out of position. I think Lucy Bronze was getting down that side, not taken one v one, but you know they’ve been giving her a bit of a torrid time. And then she had this moment in the game where she regrouped. Took her headband, re-tied it, and it was, Lucy Bronze was on. And then she ended up scoring a goal and an assist. A lot of people were saying she didn’t play well in the first 20 minutes.”
“So, every single player is going to have to do what they’ve done, and that includes players coming off the bench. Cause, it doesn’t look like Sarine Wiegman is going to change the team, but having said that, Sarine Wiegman does whatever she wants, and has the right to do whatever she wants. So, whenever we’ve questioned her, she should put Alex Greenwood in instead of Rachel Daly, everyone is talking about it in England at the moment, if Alessia Russo should start instead of Ellen White. I don’t think she will, I think she should, but I don’t think she will.”
“So all the players know their roles and responsibilities. And I think she will go with the same team.”
Who is going to win it?
“England, now I am going to start saying England. I want them to win so badly, and I think I’ve been holding it in this whole tournament. Because my head and my heart were, like I said, telling me two different things. But now we are almost at the final, I am getting those butterfly feelings, and I just really, really want the girls to win.”
Sweden sprung a few tactical surprises and could have taken the lead inside the opening minute. England adapted and went on to win the match. Are you expecting a similar flow in the final?
“Well, I think we have to be switched on because obviously, Sofia Jakobsson could have scored, and if it wasn’t for Marry Earps pulling off that save with her foot, they would have scored after 30 seconds, and the game could have been completely different.”
“So I think we need to be a little bit more switched on from the get-go. I don’t think we should sit back and let them come at us. I don’t think Sarina Wiegman allows that. What I love about what this England team do, compared to before when I played and in recent years, when they are winning the game, they kind of like bring on a defender, or bring on a defensive midfielder. Sarina Wiegman, the team could be like two or three-nil up, she brings on a centre-forward. These girls are still going for it until the end.”
“So, I think tactically, they are going to have to make sure they take care, they have to defend like Germany does. Germany hunt in packs. When someone gets the ball even yesterday, Brand was tracking back, and she is a striker. They defend on both sides of the ball. And England are going to have to do that the whole game.”
England started slowly against Sweden as they have in many of their matches in the tournament. Germany have led at halftime in every one of their games. Can you see Germany taking the lead in the final?
“I hope not, but obviously, the stats show that they are very good at that. And I think that they conceded in the dying seconds yesterday against France that was a bit against a runner’s play, when Diani kind of hit it, and Frohms hit it with the back of her head, and it was an own goal.”
“But, it always looked like Germany are going to win. Even though it was one-one at halftime, it always looked like Germany were going to win. So I hope that that stat doesn’t work. I do think that England start slow, but luckily they don’t concede. Whereas I think they ride the wave. Whenever they are under pressure, whenever people are coming at them, they always seem to know how to handle it. And I think you have to have a little bit of luck as well. I think the girls have done so well, but you do have to have an element of luck. “
“Because against Spain, Spain were the better team by far. For the whole game, for 78 minutes, Spain looked like they were all over England. But, they can’t take their chances. Now that is when Beth Mead comes into play, because she can finish anything that is in front of her. When you are in that type of form, anything you touch goes in. And I think that is a major factor in this game, I really do.”
“I think goalscoring opportunities will happen for both teams on Sunday. I think Germany will create, I think England will create. And I hope that maybe this is where Lauren, we have been waiting for a Lauren Hemp to have, in this game. Because I don’t think she’s had a bad tournament. No one in England thinks that. I think she has not done as well as everybody expected her to. I think people expected Lauren Hemp to be the best player in the tournament, a Golden Boot winner. Everyone was saying that Lauren Hemp was going to win it.”
“Well, Beth Mead has been amazing all this year. Got Player of the Year when no one was really talking about Beth Mead. So now, I think Beth Mead will be spoken about, forever.”
England had two extra days of rest over Sweden in the semi-final. Do you think that helped them in the match, and are you expecting the same in the final?
“Yeah, I definitely do think it helps. I think the fact that there is more rest in this tournament is actually really good for all players. I think if I was Sweden or Germany, I would definitely be thinking about how has that worked out. I don’t think they’ve done it in any particular way or on purpose, but it does play a factor.”
“But, on the flip side, I personally wouldn’t want too much time. I think when these games are coming around, you just want it to come. Because now we are still three, four days away from the game. And the gals would want the game to come now. They don’t want rest. Because when you are playing well, you want the next game to come as quickly as it can.”
“If I was there, I personally would want an extra couple of days’ rest. But when I am talking about games coming so fast when you only get two days in between. You know, in World Cups and that kind of stuff in previous years, you get two days in between each game. So, whereas now there is a longer, longer break. Which I think helps everybody, but you don’t want too much of a long break, but if I was Germany, I would be thinking, hmm? Because throughout the tournament, England have had more of a break than the other teams.”
England are the favourites for the final and the goal line is at 2.5. Do you expect a high or low-scoring final?
“I think this tournament has been really hard to predict, because of all the games, I felt like the semifinals last night, Germany-France, was always going to be tight. But then, having said that, if teams take their chances, then they win the game. Germany only beat Austria two-nil, because of Austria making two very poor defensive errors. But having said that, Germany dominated the game. “
“So what we’ve seen in this tournament is that the team that dominates possession doesn’t always win. And when I say dominates, it can have like 75% possession, and not win the game. I feel like you see that very often in games, in league games or in other tournaments.”
“I think it is not going to be a high-scoring game, I don’t, but I think it will be a very fast game. I really do. “
“I can’t see this game being like a three-two, I could be wrong, but I never sit on the fence. I always like to give my predictions. I can’t see it being a three-two. I think it is either going to be a two-one, or England will win comfortably, hopefully, being so. I mean, against Sweden, I said it will be two-one, and it ended up four-nil. Against Norway, I said it would be two-one, England won eight-nil. “
“And I think everybody would have said the same things about those games. It is not because I don’t know what I am talking about. Or, sometimes I don’t, but it is based upon the fact that it’s what you see. You don’t see these types of results happening usually very often. Where England are scoring 12 goals against two top Scandinavian nations. “
It’s 4 goals from 4 substitute appearances for Alessia Russo. Would you start her in the final?
“See, this is difficult because I have a really strong opinion about this because I’ve been there before when I’ve played for Orlando Pride, it is not the same, but when I went there, they told me I was a player coming off the bench. Because every time I came off the bench, I scored. And in the end, I left, based upon that. Because they pigeon-holed me, and they told me you are a superstar. I was only like 27 years old, I felt like I was in the prime of my career.”
“So it is a blessing and a curse, Alessia has done so good coming off the bench. Because Ellen White is clearly the number nine for this tournament. She is someone that is reliable, she is someone that is the all times leading goal scorer. So, I completely get that. “
“But, when you look at her performance during the tournament, from a technical perspective, Alessia Russo has been better. Ellen White has implemented the game plan from the start, now, clearly, it is something that is working.”
“This isn’t something that they are going to be able to use in the next tournament and the next tournament. Because for me, I think Alessia Russo takes Ellen White’s spot within the next couple of years, at least for me. I think that is pretty obvious.”
“But, right now, I think she goes with the right team. I think she goes with the same team. Because, If she goes with Alessia Russo and it doesn’t work out, everybody then would be saying, why didn’t Ellen White start? So I think it is damned if you do, damned if you don’t for Sarina Wiegman. But, I believe she won’t change the team. Because she hasn’t during this whole tournament.”
“And, tactically, against Spain, she needed to. I think she needed to take off probably Rachel Daly probably at half-time, and just bring on Alex Greenwood, and she just didn’t. And, we won. So it is almost like, let her do what she is doing. Who am I to then question why is she taking off Fran Kirby and Beth Mead against Spain, because it worked. “
“So, in Sarina we trust, I’ve said it many many times. “
“But I do think that we will go with the same eleven. And I think that is what she will do. “
“But Alessia Russo has been amazing. She could still get the Golden Boot herself. I mean, coming off the bench, I don’t think we’ve ever really seen that. But, it is still possible. “
“She looks dangerous when she comes on. She gets on the ball, she turns, she plays other players in, I think Ella Toone, when they play together as well when they come off the bench, they are very, very effective. I think it helps that they are best friends.“
We’ve seen record attendances, massive TV audiences and a major success for the England team on the pitch. What kind of impact do you think this tournament can and will have on the women’s game in this country?
“Yeah, I think it is already having an impact. I think the fact that more girls, there have been a lot of teams that have been formed around the country based upon this tournament. I saw one social media post that said we are going to start a girls’ team. And I think that they had over 300 girls turn up. So it is like, it is the way you could inspire.”
“And I’ve always said seeing is believing. And I think now people realise that the women’s game isn’t a joke, for those people for whom it was. They didn’t think there was any money involved, because all you ever hear about the women’s game is we are not getting this, we are not getting that, which we wasn’t. Whereas times have changed, and still need to continue to change, there are still a lot of things that need to change going forward.”
“But I will say that the fact that these young girls, and boys, and dads, and moms, and other family members, are at these games being inspired in the way that they are. I think it is fantastic. “
“And I also think that the environments that have been created at this tournament, have to be highlighted. There have not been any fights, there has not been any trouble, and there have not been any beers thrown in.”
“Now, I know that in the men’s game, it is a little bit more hostile. And it is not to say that the women’s game doesn’t have that. I think people feel safer bringing their children to the games, based upon that it is a safer environment. And that is the reality.”
“Of all the games I’ve been on, I have not heard any swearing, and people can say ahh, but it makes a difference. Because, why would you take the children to a game, like at Wembley last year where all the fans are stampeding Wembley?”
“You know, come Sunday, I am looking forward to it, because I just know that that is not going to happen. It is just not going to happen, because it doesn’t happen. And I think people have started to see that at all the games that the fans are out there until 11 o’clock at night, an hour after the game, waiting for the team buses.”
“It is honestly such a joyous occasion and a positive occasion, and I think people are seeing that. And it is all over the TV in England. It is on every station you tune on. Even stations that you don’t usually see football on. It’s on.”
“And these girls have done that. They have really done that. And I’ve always said that it is not their job to inspire anybody. It is their job to play football and win. And that is exactly what they are going to do, hopefully.“
